Discussions with the Deluded

On October 18, 2013 by Admin

The Islamic Opponent:

Dude, you are too far gone.

First off – The Quran has 99 names for God.  Not one is ‘morning star’ or ‘dawn’.  They include: The Provider, The Compassionate, The All-Merciful, The Most Holy, The Protector, The All-Knowing, The All-Powerful, The One, The Creator, The Giver of Life, and so forth.

Second, Jesus called himself the morning star in Revelations  “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” – That means he must be Lucifer I guess.

Third, the Quran never says Jesus lived 120 years and no Muslims don’t believe Jesus was a liar. They do believe Paul was a liar.  The difference is that Muslims believe God raised Jesus to heaven before the crucifixion and what people saw was not Jesus.

Fourth, The Aramaic word for God is Alaha – which is directly where the Arabic word comes from.  It is also the name of God that Arab Christians use.

Fifth, Muslims revere the “Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.”

You want to avoid facts for your own idea of reality.  I suggest you seek Truth.

Our Response:

I love this part! Al-Tariq, chapter 86, p. 1201, 3a — “It may be added that Tariq is also the name given to the ‘morning star’ (LL)… Al-Falaq, chapter 113, p. 1258 — “Al-Falaq: The Dawn” These can be seen by going to our site and clicking on “The Not-So-Holy Qur’an” The edition posted is the very version of the Qur’an that we quote from.

Also, of the 99 names are ALL of the names and characteristics adopted by the fallen angel as is mocked by God in Isaiah 47.

Jesus IS “the bright Morning Star.” Muhammad steals his identity. Muhammad does so by calling himself: Al-Amin, “Faithful and True;” An-Noor, “The Light Personified;” As-Siraj-un-Munir, “The Light-Giving Lamp;” and As-Shafe’e, “The Intercessor.” Muhammad appeared 600 years after the Christ Jesus (The Son of God) and stole his identity. As John 10:10 tells us, “The thief (Muhammad) comes only to steal, and to kill and to destroy.” Muhammad accomplished all three of these – just as prophesied by God (The Real One).

Jesus is called a liar in the Qur’an in multiple verses (19:27a, 18:4-5, 15, 102) “And to warn those who say: Allah has taken to himself a Son. They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers. Grievous is the word that comes out of their mouths. They speak nothing but a lie.” – Qur’an 18:4-5

As for Jesus not dying on the cross and living to be 120 years old, read 4:157, 157a, p. 237-238 and 23:50, 50a, p. 689

The “proper name” of the “god” forged by Muhammad is “Allah” — Qur’an 1, notation b, p. 3

The Truth is that Muhammad, the ONLY prophet of Islam was a liar. His forged god is a liar.

Muslims… ALL Muslims have been lied to.

Again, I suggest you read it for yourself. I pulled this information right off of the pages of the Holy Qur’an with English Translation and Commentary by Maulana Muhammad Ali.

I have done so because I sought the truth. And the truth is the prophetic Word of God and the Bible.

The Islamic Opponent:

So Jesus is the Morning Star, but the Morning Star is Satan, but Jesus is not Satan, Muhammed stole Jesus’ identity as the Morning Star, so Muhammed is Satan.  You make no sense. You ignore your own contradictions, and then you pose things that are simply not true.  Don’t you see how you associate positive connotations with the term ‘morning star’ when Jesus refers it to himself, and negative if it is used elsewhere? Of course you do, but you choose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your paradigm.

Jesus, is in fact a light to the world.  He came to bring the Gospel and to bring God’s word.  He told us all that the path through heaven is by keeping the commandments, becoming pious, forgiving and actively seeking forgiveness and righteousness.   This path was available to all.  This is what Muslims believe, and no Muslim will ever say Jesus was a liar. They will say those who came after Jesus and attributed falsehoods in his name were liars. These are people like Paul.

The Quran does not dispute Jesus, but the validity of the Bible.  Your ‘morning star’ references are taken out of context and are not references to Muhammed.  Nowhere in the Quran does it say Jesus lived to be 120.

Allah again, was the word used for God before Arabic (Aramaic)- nowhere does it say Muhammed invented it.  Stop reading from biased websites and read the source itself.  This is that Muslims, whether it is convenient for you or not, worship their Creator and Sustainer.  The One True God. They pray and ask for mercy.

In the end God will judge all of us.  No pacts, or promises, secret handshakes, or rituals will save you my friend.  When you are face to face with your judgement you will only have your faith and your actions to defend yourself.  I would suggest not spreading falsehoods about believers and hatred about your fellow man.

Our Response:

Jesus is the Son of God. He is also called the bright Morning Star, the Root of David.

Muhammad is the liar in the flesh. He adopted the name Al-Tariq, “morning star;” obviously NOT the Root of David.

The “morning star” in Isaiah 14:12 is the one fallen from heaven, the flesh, and the son of “the dawn” (Al-Falaq), his forged god. These two make up the “two horns” of flesh and spirit like the Lamb (Jesus) but they speak like the dragon. (Revelation 13:11)

They are the devil and his false prophet.

The long-warned-of liar would assume the title of Jesus and his masquerading angel of light (An-Nur, Qur’an 24:35) would call himself GOD. Muhammad takes the position of Jesus and his Allah takes on the identity of God. Like Revelation 12:9 warned, they would lead the whole world astray. Until now, men believed Allah was God.

Not anymore… He’s been revealed to be THE LIAR!

This is not my paradigm. This is the written Word of God. This was penned between 600 and 1,800 years before the false prophet Muhammad appeared and began to spew his vomit.

“The glory of God (the REAL ONE) gives its light, and the Lamb is its lamp” – Rev 21:23

Muhammad, once again, is a liar. He is no light-giving lamp. He, like his foreign god, is darkness.

By the way… where is the mention of “The Commandments” in the Qur’an?

They do not exist there. Why?

1)      “You shall have no other gods before me.” – Islam takes the foreign god

2)      “You shall not make for yourself an idol…” – Islam takes for itself the foreign god and the false prophet

3)      “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God…” – Islam uses “Allah” or “devil.”

4)      “Remember the Sabbath day…” – Instead of the 7th day, Islam recognizes the 6th, this is the number of days Allah claims to have created the world WITHOUT THE DAY OF REST.

5)      “Honor your father and your mother…” – Our Father is God, our mother is Jerusalem (Mt 23:9 & Galatians 4:26)

6)      “You shall not murder” – Compare to the command of the foreign god in Qur’an 5:33

7)      “You shall not commit adultery” – Islam allows the rape of those they capture in war

8)      “You shall not steal” – This is how Muhammad began his rise to power, stealing from the merchants of the Mediterranean, the Tarshish. You do know… he was a merchant?

9)      “You shall not give false testimony” – Muhammad is the liar and the false prophet. All of his testimony was false…

10)  “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” – As you are well aware, Muhammad teaches Muslims to do ALL of these things to the non-believers.

So much for the “Ten Commandments…”

You do realize that Muhammad is the historically correct character of Ezekiel 38:10-13 – right? The land of Sheba is southern Arabia. Dedan is central and northern Arabia. And the merchants have already been established.

The reason that Islam calls Paul the liar is because he is the one and only prophet of God who appeared after the Christ Jesus, the Son of God, was crucified and resurrected. He is the Counselor. This does not bode well for the followers of the false prophet of Islam!

The Bible speaks for itself in that it forewarned of Muhammad, his Allah, their body of believers (the deluded) and their “speaking image” – the Qur’an.

The references to the “morning star” are perfect and were warned of 1,300 years prior to the invention of Islam and the Muslims.

As far as the 120 years and Allah’s proper name… please refer to the Qur’an chapter, pages, verses and narratives as I have already pointed out. To refute this is ridiculous as I have made available the very Qur’an I utilize and take the type directly from the page. If you choose not to read it because it’s harmful to your argument… well, I understand.

By the way, Muhammad didn’t INVENT the name of Allah. He took it for his own foreign god.

Muslims are deluded. They refuse to love the truth. For this reason God sent you a powerful delusion so that you will believe the lie and so that you will all be condemned – all who have not believed in the truth but have delighted in the wickedness of the false prophet and his foreign god. (Refer to 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

The prayers of Muslims go unheard. They fall upon the deaf ears of the one who deceives you; the fallen angel Allah.

To tell the truth is the best way I can show my love to my fellow man. To encourage you to perish would be hateful.

I hope and pray that you recognize the lies, the “beverage of many hues” you have been fed…

May God Bless You in that you might leave Islam for the truth of the Father, the Son and their Spirit.

The Atheist:

Another name of Allah (which is a title, by the way, not a personal name like YHWH) is “The Greatest of Deceivers”. This is mentioned many times in the Qur’an.

Here’s an analysis that shows that Allah *cannot* be the same as YHWH, in fact, in many ways Allah is YHWH’s opposite. Figures, doesn’t it?: http://www.answering-islam.org…

If your pastor or priest is advocating Muslim services I suggest you point them to this link. They are turning people from YHWH to the adversary of YHWH.

ps. I’m an atheist – but I thought you guys should know the theology, since most Westerners are unaware of Muslim doctrines.  Islam is the enemy of every Enlightenment Value, that’s why atheists should be standing with Christians against the evil, totalitarian, political ideology called “Islam”.

Our Response:

The author of the English Translation of the Qur’an disagrees with you about the “proper name” being Allah (Qur’an, Maulana Muhammad Ali, ch. 1, note b., p. 3).  He being an intelligent scholar and obviously well-versed, I’ll take his word over yours. This is also easily read by anyone interested.

As far as Muhammad’s Allah (from here on always assumed as Muhammad’s) being God’s opposition, that’s a given.

Any pastor or priest, the pope included, who suggests “cooperation” with Islam is not a man of God. However, discussing the love of Christ and using the Unrepentant Confession of the Qur’an as proof of God’s prophetic word (proof that Islam is the delusion of 2 The 2) is the right thing to do.

Mixing Chrislam is as false as is the idea of COEXIST. Islam has proven that evil liars cannot exist with truthful love.

I’m sorry to hear you are an Atheist. With all the prophetic proof available to you, it’s sad to know that you are allied with the Muslims.

There are only two choices: God or his opponent. There is no one who sits on the side-lines. A default is disbelief in the Spirit of God. Such a disbelief means that you too will perish.
How could one dismiss such knowledge?

The Atheist:

Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly, Ron.

Allah comes from the Arabic “AL Illah”, which means “THE God”. It is a title.

In contrast the Tetragrammatron, YHWH, is a personal name.

Now Mohammed claimed that the pagan moon good Allah was the same as the “God of Abraham”, but their attributes are contradictory. They simply cannot be the same, and are more like opposites – which we agree on (but many US pastors and lay people don’t seem to get).

Furthermore, Allah originally was merely the head of a pantheon. The title was co-opted by Mohammed to refer to the “God of Abraham” (who Mohammed heard about from Jews and heretical Arian Christiians who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus).

First post on this thread summarizes it quite nicely: http://atheistforums.org/threa…

Islam is now a bit conflicted about the use of the term “Allah”. They use it for themselves. They used to force dhimmis (Christians and Jews in the Islamic Empire) to use the term as well to mean God/YHWH (it seems Arabic Christians may have also used the term before the advent of Islam).  However, Malaysia has just ruled that non-Muslims may *not* use the term for God/YHWH.

> “There are only two choices: God or his opponent. There is no one who sits on the side-lines. A default is disbelief in the Spirit of God. Such a disbelief means that you too will perish. How could one dismiss such knowledge?”

Sorry, I follow the Scientific Method.  All God has to do is reveal himself in something that can only be attributed to Him. At the moment there is nothing known that cannot be explained without him. All we have are the self-contradictory rants of Bronze Age desert barbarians who made a first attempt to explain the universe – but got it wrong. I have no problem with other people believing, but I simply cannot believe in the anti-scientific and massively self-contradictory nonsense in the Bible. We are alone on this planet, we have to be moral for the benefit of all – not because some alleged vengeful maniac threatens to roast the creations He made.

Look at all the contradictions in the Bible, show graphically here. It is a superstitious work of mere men. http://www.project-reason.org/…

Here’s another analysis of the Bible, going into more depth where it is riddled with flaws: http://skepticsannotatedbible….

Don’t worry, the Qur’an is even worse! http://skepticsannotatedbible….

I didn’t intend to challenge your faith, but you did question my rationalist and scientific views, and stated that there is no in-between. Well, actually, there is – and it has been shown to be verifiable and reproducible, unlike the ancient superstitions we inherited.   You can adopt Judeo-Christian morals without having to buy into the supernatural superstition :)

What matters is not that you and I differ in our understanding of the nature of reality. What matters is we have shared values – the Enlightenment Values. It matters that we stand shoulder to shoulder to confront totalitarian evil – as in the form of progressive socialism and Islam.

Our Response:

Oh… you explained yourself just fine!

The name of Allah existed before Muhammad. He just took it for the PROPER NAME of his foreign god. Once again, I’ll refer you to a higher source than yourself on this: Maulana Muhammad Ali, The (Un)Holy Qur’an, chapter 1, narrative b., p. 3

The “pagan moon god” is still the pagan moon god. He calls Muhammad “the moon.” He also entitles chapter 54 of the Qur’an as “The Moon.”

The God of Abraham was the God of the Arabs… until Muhammad came around.

“(Muhammad) will show no regard for the gods (Father, Son, Spirit) of his fathers (Abraham included) or for the one desired by women (Who would want Muhammad? Have you seen how Islam treats them?), nor will he regard any god (Allah is not a GOD), but will exalt himself above them all (this is a reference to the “Five I’s” of Isaiah 14:12-14; of which he is half of the pair. He is the “morning star”). Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his fathers he honored with gold (Qur’an chapter 43) and silver (A Manual of Hadith, chapter 29, verse 8, p. 302, narrative 6), with precious stones (The Black Stone built into the Kaa’ba – see 2 Kings 10:26-27) and costly gifts (the lives and souls of men as per chapter 8, called Voluntary Gifts).” – The historically accurate fulfillment of Daniel 11:37-38

Science accepts evidence. You deny it…

God has revealed himself in the Word before the event. As we are proving, God is God and he has done EXACTLY as he said he would do.

The so-called “nonsense” of the Bible warned us of what we see happening in the White House and the Middle East – the “creep” of Islam (Yes, I meant for that to be directed at Barack Husssssein Obama)

Yours are the words, “vengeful maniac” in describing God.

I’m sorry… if you have a Biblical contradiction, please bring it forth. I read… a lot!

As you can tell, I have a bit of knowledge in regard to the Qur’an. I (we) have proven it to be warned of by God and the Bible.

I do not question your views. I merely told you the truth. That is my duty as a loving neighbor. The choice is yours. Everyone chooses their fate… EVERYONE.

There are many “good” people who will stay here with the Muslims.

You and I do not stand shoulder to shoulder. You side with them – in opposition to God. Though your rational is different than theirs, the conclusion is the same.

“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit (as you have done above) will not be forgiven.” – Mt 13:30-31

Once again, I’m sorry for your choice.

The Atheist:

> “The God of Abraham was the God of the Arabs… until Muhammad came around.”

I’m afraid Maulana Muhammad Ali is wrong here. Read about about what Mohammed did – when he re-entered Mecca he went around and smashed the idols of all the pagan gods of his Queresh tribe, except one.

Some Arabs were Jews, and some were Christians (mostly heretical Arians driven out from the Byzantine Empire). A large number of tribes at the time of Mohammed were pagan, including Mohammed’s own tribe.  Now see how Mr Ali’s statement is wrong?

> “Science accepts evidence. You deny it…”

Please give me one verifiable piece of evidence for God, that cannot be attributed to anything else, and I’m prepared to accept that evidence.  Look at the Bible and Qur’an – there is not a single thing written in them that could not have been written by a man of their time. Apparently God did not know about soap, if he’d said something about microbial life as the basis of disease and that boiling down animal fat and using it regularly then BILLIONS of lives would have been saved throughout the centuries. But *no*, God either withheld such a simple the explanation (which the men of the time would have understood), which makes him petty and evil if he exists; or he did not know about the microbial causes of disease (lol!); or, ‘God’ was a useful fiction for primitive man to try and explain the universe. It turns out we (Western civilization) have much better explanations of *everything* now: from the origins of disease, to the origins of the Universe. We have better dietary laws, we have better health care, we have better understand of psychology and physics and chemistry and politics and economics and cultures and the World and history and cosmology and stellar evolution and primordial nucleosynthesis and our own bodies and DNA and viruses.

Jesus believed that casting out demons was required to cure sickness. It turns out that a simple bar of soap has done far more to prevent sickness and save lives than superstition has. And antibiotics are a fantastic tool for ‘casting out sickness demons’ – far more reliable and effective than mumbo jumbo prayers when put to the test.

> “Once again, I’m sorry for your choice.” Thank you, but don’t be, please.  I don’t remember the time before I was born, and I won’t remember the time after I die.  It is a sad thought to not see loved ones again, but fortunately I won’t even notice.

Meanwhile, we *must* stand shoulder to shoulder to defeat Islam who doesn’t want us to give us the choice of joining their totalitarian and mafia political system. If we do not stand together then we will be utterly defeated and our culture will pass away like the ancient Persian and Egyptian cultures under Islam.  My science will go (‘thanks’ to Al Ghazali) and your Christianity will be driven out (as is being done in Iraq and Iran and Egypt and Syria and Sudan and Libya and elsewhere).

Our Response:

Maulana did not say that the God of Abraham was the God of the Arabs… I did.

Many of the idols smashed by Muhammad were the very same idols we might find in a Catholic church. After all, it was in the dying days of the Roman Empire.

** Israel was re-gathered into her own land in 1948 after having been dispersed for 1,900 years

** The number of his name as written by John in Revelation 13:18 reads Muhammad-Allah-Rasul” in Arabic script.

** The rule to buy and sell can be found in A Manual of Hadith, chapter 22, Buying and Selling, rule #5, page 240

** Muhammad is the historical character who fits Ezekiel 38:10-13

** Muhammad is the character who has accomplished Daniel 7:24-25

** The “miraculous signs” warned of in Rev 13:13 and 2 Thessalonians 2 are those of the Qur’an’s “ayahs.”

** The warning of Rev 13:14-15 is realized in the Qur’an’s 5:33

** The fallen angel in Rev 10, is Allah – holding the “little scroll,” complete with the seven thunders of chapter 1

** The honey of Rev 10 is the “beverage of many hues” as described in Qur’an chapter 16

** 9/11 is described as “The day of great slaughter when the towers fall” – Isaiah 30:25

** The order to do this very thing is commanded within the Qur’an – verse 4:78

** Ezekiel 39 is a step-by-step history of Adolph H.’s WWII. Within just a couple of years after the end of WWII, the Jewish state was re-gathered. God no longer turned his face from her.

I have written volumes on this. And what I know to be certain is that, in your arrogance, you will dismiss the fact that all of this was written in the books of the Bible long before the events themselves occurred.

Those who belong to God hear what God says. The reason you do not hear (no matter the amount of evidence) hear is that you do not belong to God.

You misunderstand Jesus’ casting out demons… It demonstrates our savior – something that needed to be understood by the men of 2,000 years ago.

You completely miss the point. Islam has already won. They own the White House. Our DHS Advisor is a MUSLIM! Our previous Secretary of State has as her top aid a MUSLIM!

I know you cannot possibly recognize it because you do not know Arabic calligraphy, but the engraving on Barack’s ring matches the symbols written on the walls of the burned out Benghazi consulate. They read “There is no god but Allah.” It does so with just two symbols.

Those who know of such rings say that the balance of the Shahada, “and his messenger is Muhammad” is engraved on the inside. I know these symbols, as it was I who discovered the calligraphic name of Muhammad within the three Greek numerals written by John. It’s been right in front of us for the last 1,350 years.

Islam surrounds Israel like a swarm of bees.

Along those lines, Allah has adopted all of the names and characteristics of Satan as he is mocked by God in Isaiah 47 – including being the “queen of the kingdom.”

Islam has covered the whole world. They, their prophet, their god and their “speaking image” are antichrist as per 1 John 2:22 – Just as you are.

We have lost America. We lost it to the Muslims; just like Persia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya and the rest of the Middle East.

“(Allah) has extended his power over many countries; Egypt has not escaped. He has gained control of the treasures (lives and souls of men) of gold and silver (described previously within the Qur’an) and all the riches of Egypt, with the Libyans and Nubians (Sudanese) in submission. But reports from the east (Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan) and the north (Syria & Iraq) have alarmed him and he has set out in a great rage to destroy and ann!hilate many. He has pitched his royal temples (tents) between the seas (of men & religion) at the beautiful holy mountain – Jerusalem. He has done so on the Temple Mount.

Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.” – This is the historically accurate account of Daniel 11:42-45

Moa,

You gave me the kingdoms and nations of: Persia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Sudan and Libya. Everyone was addressed in the verse I just returned to you. That verse was written 2,600 years ago.

Are you listening?

__________

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