Common arguments and Objections about the end of days…Part II

On December 16, 2013 by Admin

The Commentator: “Okay; Jesus did APPEAR as a created being, called “THE Angel of the Lord” {emphasis mine}; no one else was so designated; others were always “an angel of the Lord” if “of the Lord” was used at all. That He could appear as a human or whatever He chose is a foregone. But why would He do so in heaven where no such disguise is needed?”

Ron: “Disguise” is the wrong term. As God’s children, we are to understand His Word well enough to recognize its truth in man’s history. If he had called the Gog of Ezekiel 39 Hitler, the prophecy would never have been fulfilled. Men would have killed Adolph Hitler long before he could commit his heinous acts. The same argument goes for Muhammad in all of his Biblical warnings. Had the name Muhammad been used, there would be no Islam.

Jesus was not mentioned by name in the Old Testament. If he had been, then the Pharisees and the Romans would not have crucified him.

The Commentator: “The reason Jesus came in human flesh was that a Man had to live within and fulfill the law in order to be the “sacrificial Lamb” to satisfy the justice of the Law; but be pure and unblemished {by sin} Himself; no regular human could do that; if we could there would never have been a cross on Calvary for that purpose. He was also the “scapegoat” onto whom all our sins were placed so that He carried them into the “wilderness” of death, then defeated it by rising again.”

Ron: We agree on this.

The Commentator: “But He is Himself; and can’t be a separate being who isn’t Him; which is who both Michael, and Gabriel are, any more than they can be the Son.”

Ron: As previously stated, angels appeared in the absence of Christ. They are definitely Spirits of God as is the Christ. It does bring up an interesting point though… I’ll have to see if an angel of God appears in the presence of the Christ. We know that Moses and Elijah did.

The Commentator: “Now about that ‘contradiction:’ Lucifer translates as “daystar”; that’s what it says in the Hebrew / English dictionary; What star do we see in the day time? Some translations mistranslate that as morning star instead of day star, and that is an error.”

Ron: LUCIFER – “Latin for ‘morning star’ (Isaiah 14:12) a title of the king of Babylon, often understood as a reference to the devil.” – Strong’s Concordance of the Bible, page 1637.

MORNING STAR – “Figurative of the glory of the king of Babylon (Isa 14:12). Of Jesus (2Pe 1:19; Rev 2:26; 22:16)” — Strong’s Concordance of the Bible, page 1647

You see… The two horns (Rev 13:11) of the morning star and the dawn imitate the Father and the Son as GOD himself.

The Commentator: “Not quite sure why he chose an entity known as a moon god as his vehicle, but he did. And that IS Satan. So he usurped nothing.”

Ron: Muhammad calls himself the moon. And Allah is the foreign god of the false prophet.

But they were not to remain submerged in darkness forever, for the moon (the Holy Prophet) had already made its appearance and would soon grow full, when the Arab nation was to march forth to conquer the world, the moon being a symbol of the power of the Arabs – Qur’an 84:18, 18a., p. 1196

I’ll call that a point for my argument – right?

The Commentator: “The Kingdoms represented by the 10 horns correspond to the 10 nation states being established by Satan’s NWO crowd on the world political stage, not 10 local groups; and if you read the UN Agenda 21 alongside the Biblcal prophecies concerning this period of time, you’ll see who they mesh like 2 gear wheels going in opposite directions with different goals.”

Ron: These ten are listed within Ezekiel 38. Everything God gives us has reason. He identified Muhammad as the pillaging character of Ezekiel 38:10-13. The nations within these territories are either all Islamic or Atheist allied nations thereof.

The Commentator: “In fact China is still the only nation capable of fielding a 200 million man army…”

Ron: The 200,000,000 is not an actual number in the opposing army but is representative of two-thirds of men on earth.

A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him (a reference to Isiah 29:5-6). Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand attended him – Revelation 7:10
10,000 X 10,000 = 100,000,000
In the whole land,’ declares the Lord, ‘two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third will be left in it’ – Zechariah 13:8

China, India, Russia, North Korea, all Islamic nations, and this nation of Obamistan are part of the two-thirds.

The Commentator: “…not even India, or all the Muslim nations put together could accomplish that.”

Ron: Ummm, they’ve all been presented and are opposed to Israel in this very moment.

The Commentator: “But NONE of those “horns” has presented as yet, except the EU.”

Ron: Just days after the 9/11 attack on Benghazi, what did Barack state to the largely Islamic and Atheist body at the U.N?

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam

The Commentator: “And the little horn is the anti-Christ who also hasn’t yet been made manifest as such.”

Ron: There is not another to claim the title of morning star. There is not another to fulfill Ezekiel 38:10-13, Daniel 7:8, 11, 24, 25 and all of Rev 13:11-18 – including God giving us his very name. That’s manifest

The Commentator: “There’s not a Biblical scholar anywhere that I’ve ever heard of who presents otherwise.”

Ron: In the days when Jesus walked the earth, the Pharisees were the Biblical scholars. How did that work out for Jesus?

The Commentator: “Muhammad was undisputably a tool of Satan…”

Ron: Agreed 100%

The Commentator: “…but he wasn’t and can’t be the anti-Christ because he’s long dead and buried and not coming back except for judgment.

Ron:

Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn (Muhammad as the bear-beast). I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.) – Daniel 7:11-12
Muhammad was killed, but not by human power (Daniel 8:25). Like all who burn, he will burn upon the destruction of the earth. But, the beast of Satan/Allah (lion-beast), the heads and carriers (leopard-beast) and the fourth-beast live on in the way of Islam.

The false prophet is dead. But he speaks through his speaking image, the Qur’an, and the call to prayer.

The Commentator: “What Muhammad claims about Allah is nothing but lies and anti-Biblical, so why would I put any stock in it?”

Ron: Is that not the very purpose of the false prophet; to speak lies and speak against the Most High God (Father, Son and Spirit)? Is he not warned to oppress God’s saints, the Christians and the Jews?

The Commentator: “The set times are not AH, except in the minds of Muslims and have no pertinence to what is real. As for Sharia that’s a corruption of Mosaic law, but doesn’t include the Decalogue which s GOD’S Law! God likely inspired Mosaic law too but it’s on a different level, if you ask me.”

Ron: Is it not warned that he will “TRY” (emphasis TRY) to change the set times (from A.D. to A.H.) and change the Laws of God to the laws of his god, the Qur’anic covenant?

The Commentator: “Satan isn’t in the Earth…”

Ron: Wait… God did not throw Satan to earth?

The Commentator: “…he’s also known as the Prince of the Power of the air…”

Ron: Can you tell me please, what happened on 9/11/2001? Where did those vultures (Matthew 24:28), those birds of prey (Isaiah 46:11), come from?

The Commentator: “No, ‘we’ have NOT established any such thing.”

Ron: “We” is not meant to include you…

The Commentator: “Muslims are playing a role in the present judgment against America, as God often uses other groups of people to punish one that has gone out of line. So far, nothing more than that.”

Ron: Egypt would disagree with you. Libya would disagree with you. Sudan (Nubia) would disagree with you. Kenya would disagree with you. Somalia would disagree with you. Mali would disagree with you. Morocco would disagree with you. Algeria would disagree with you. Niger would disagree with you. Chad would disagree with you. Saudi Arabia would disagree with you. Yemen would disagree with you. Oman would disagree with you. Persia would disagree with you. Afghanistan would disagree with you. Pakistan would disagree with you. India would disagree with you. Indonesia would disagree with you. Iraq would disagree with you. Syria would disagree with you. Palestine would disagree with you. Israel would disagree with you…

Islam has existed and been killing for 1,400 years. They call for Israel’s destruction today. They call for America’s destruction today. They want the whole world to follow Muhammad’s Allah and will not stop until God, and God alone, stops them.

The Commentator: “And since that Temple and prophesied abomination have yet to come…”

Ron: You recognize the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock as temples of the God of heaven? OK… This is where I ask you, point blank, whether or not you profess that Jesus is the Son of God and that Muhammad’s Allah is nothing other than Satanic? Anyone who cannot recognize the Dome of the Rock and the house of Baal (Al-Aqsa mosque) as anything other than evil and demonic – is forever lost.

The Commentator: “…that doesn’t fit either. The last Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, LONG before Muhammad came along and there hasn’t been one built there since, so that doesn’t fit anything scriptural.”

Ron: Again, the Al-Aqsa mosque was an existing building dedicated in-or-about 685 A.D. The construction of the Dome of the Rock began a couple of years later and was completed in 692 A.D. – Might you want to alter your understanding of historical facts? And it fits everything Scriptural. The proclaimation to rebuild a third Jewish temple is made nowhere in the Bible – NOWHERE. The temple is and has been the God of heaven and his Lamb for 2,000 years.

I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon (names of Muhammad) to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp (Yet another name of the Christ stolen by the false prophet) – Rev 21:23

The Commentator: “Lucifer is an archangel that’s all he’s ever been and all he can ever be; not flesh!”

Ron: Be very careful here. The lamb of God was both Spirit and flesh. And the two horns of Muhammad and his Allah (morning star and the dawn) were/are of flesh and spirit (Rev 13:11). Denying the truth just to attempt to win a debate can be deceptive.

The Commentator: “His son either by the act of procreation with a human woman or by some form of artificial insemination or genetic engineering will be the fleshly manifestation of his evil in the world, and that will also be the anti-Christ most likely.”

Ron: You’ve been watching too many “Rosemary’s Baby” movies… absurd.

The Commentator: “Jesus had been presented long before Isaiah came on the scene; Abraham, and even earlier Enoch, and Eve knew of His coming; and prophets along the way added to what to expect of and from Him when He appeared. isaiah was merely the first to recognize and describe the 2 comings. David perfectly described His death by crucifixion, as if he was experiencing it personally. The first promise of His coming was in Gen 3:15 to Eve.”

Ron: And…?

The Commentator: “I really don’t give Muhammad that much credit; I think he was just an ignorant camel jockey that Satan latched onto because he was ambitious and of the “right” mindset for the job…That he was an evil man is indisputable. That he was anything more than that, questionable. But he made a great tool for Satan. Indeed…”

Ron: We have proven differently… He’s the one. By historical evidence, he’s the false prophet. I understand how those who see this evidence and deny it are those who are too anchored in their pre-determined expectations. Now, you might understand just how difficult it was for the Pharisees who had their own pre-determined expectations of the Christ. They could not refute Him any more than you can refute his second coming… but you both deny the prophetic evidence.

The Commentator: “…one of the greatest differences between the Quran and the Bible is that the message of the latter, although written by some 40+ different men, over a span of about 2000 years, it has a cohesive message from beginning to end…”

Ron: The differences between the Bible and the Qur’an are vast. What one needs to know is that the Bible warned of the Qur’an.

The Commentator: “…the Quran allegedly authored by 1 man”

Ron: OK… This is one of the most important points. Muhammad was the lone prophet from the Ishmaelite lineage; he was not from the root of David but from the root of the slave-woman’s son. There are no prophets of God from the lineage of the “donkey of a man” – Ishmael. There is only the one false prophet who crawls up from this root. Also, Muhammad “authored” nothing. He only spoke his garbage. Muhammad was illiterate. He could neither read nor write.

Be stunned and amazed, blind yourselves and be sightless; be drunk but not from wine, stagger, but not from beer. The Lord has brought over you a deep sleep: He has sealed your eyes (the prophets); he has covered your heads (the seers). For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say to him, ‘Read this, please,’ he will answer, ‘I can’t; it is sealed.’ Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, ‘Read this please,’ he will answer, ‘I don’t know how to read’ – Isaiah 29:9-12
Muhammad had no vision of the God of heaven. And look what he had to say about being drunk:
In the days of ignorance (before Muhammad) they passed their nights in drunken orgies, but now they are kept awake at night in devotion and were instead drunk with the love of Allah – Qur’an 25:63, 63a., p. 727
He/they are dead. They cannot see God through his Word or his prophetic past. For MUhammadand his dedicated, the Bible is sealed. Even those that Muhammad had acquired to read from the Bible could only utter its words and not understand them. And, of course, Muhammad could read nothing.

Instead, he vomited up what he could remember from others who read to him from the Bible and, from his own interpretations, he yucked up his own laws and covenants. It was three of the four patriarchal leaders (heads) who gathered (from the four wings or “carriers of) the sparsely written “miraculous verses” on palm reeds and bone. This was the false covenant; spoken by the false prophet and “confirmed” by his Allah in the way of the Qur’an – 18 years after the death of Muhammad. The third head, Uthman, was beheaded for burning the original writings. According to the divided Muslims, he didn’t worship the Qur’an (As is warned of in Rev 13:14-15); so they killed him.

The Commentator: “…isn’t even consistent within itself.”

Ron: Agreed… The Father and two witnesses, his Son and his Spirit, are all in agreement. Muhammad not only contradicts himself but calls all the prophets preceding him (Jesus included) mistaken.

The Commentator: “The Bible is a message of love, the Quran is one of hate. The Bible teaches salvation by Grace through Faith; the Quran offers no hope of salvation in truth.”

Ron: Agreed… But the Bible is much, much more. It is prophetic. It warned of the Qur’an. And nothing in the Qur’an is prophetic.

The Commentator: “There’s no credible evidence Muhammad was ever a spirit before he lived on Earth, let alone that he was kicked out of heaven.”

Ron: Yet he takes on the title of the morning star. Were you not a spirit which originated from God and is to return?

…and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it – Ecclesiastes 12:7

The Commentator: “That was just Lucifer and his following angels who rebelled against God…”

Ron: And, as we have proven by 2Pe 1:19 and Isa 14:12, Lucifer mirrors the Father and the Son as the two horns.

The Commentator: “…and Michael was the archangel who led the armies of God in that little fracas. He’s also spoken of as the guardian angel of Israel. Whereas Jesus is our High Priest in the heavenly Tabernacle, after the order of Melchizadek.”

Ron: Agreed…

The Commentator: “The 2 witnesses of the Tribulation period coming are Enoch and Elijah, who were translated but never actually died.”

Ron: It has been made clear that the two witnesses were killed and left for dead for three days. Jesus tells us who, like him, did this very thing – Jonah (Matthew 12:40). This is another chapter all in and of itself. As are all the prophets, Jonah was a guided Spirit of God.

The Commentator: “If you haven’t done so, read the Ethiopian version of the Book of Enoch. It’s almost exclusively about that time frame coming up. And Jesus never at any time claimed even “equal status” with the Father, although He said He and the Father are One…”

Ron: You asked and answered you own question; Jesus and the Father are ONE.

The Commentator: “…in the sense of overriding or commanding the Father, He was always submissive; same with the Holy Spirit. WOULD the Father deny such a petition from Him? Most likely not; I can’t imagine why He would because it doesn’t go against His stated will, which is the only reason I know of that He would. But that doesn’t make it a command. If Jesus was of equal status that scenario in Gethsemane would have been unnecessary; He would simply have either decided to go through with it, or not. Instead, He was asking the Father if there wasn’t some other way; and when there wasn’t, submitted to the will of the Father.”

Ron: If God can deny the request, the command of his Son on the cross at the time of His crucifixion, He could deny his request, His command to ransom you now. Semantics bring about foolish divisions. We have made the Biblical point that Jesus gave a loud command.

The Commentator: “Again I reiterate the physical difficulty of doing so. What might seem loud in the near silence of Calvary wouldn’t be so loud; the diaphragm and lungs are stretched in such a way that breathing at all is nearly impossible, and drawing a deep enough breath to shout is. The vocal cords don’t vibrate enough to produce a loud sound without the air behind them to do so. That’s simple physiology. But given that, I suspect what that actually means is an audible voice as opposed to a wheezy whisper which would be about all that would be possible for most in that condition. They weren’t just hanging around, chatting up there.”

Ron: You are not now arguing with me but with what the Bible says. I’ll leave that between you and God.

The Commentator: “None of those verses support 7,000 raised with Jesus, and no verse supports anyone going into that heavenly Tabernacle with Him. No mention of any to serve Him during this period until after his return to Earth.”

Ron: Jesus does not return to earth; He returns to us. His kingdom is not of this world. Jesus said,

“My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from a different place” – John 18:36

Nowhere in the Bible will you find Jesus reign “ON EARTH” – it doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist because he reigns above, off of this earth. This earth gets destroyed by fire.

The Commentator: “The 7,000 in Kings were Jews who hadn’t been contaminated by idolatry that was pervasive at the time in Israel and Judea, a remnant of the Israel of the promise.”

Ron: Agreed… They are those like Daniel who were raised when the power of the Law was broken by the grace of the Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection.

The Commentator: “The martyrs who are beheaded are, I suspect, happening now, in Muslim nations for the most part.”

Ron: It’s been happening for 1,400 years. But, it is John (the baptist) that was part of the first resurrection.

The Commentator: “The second resurrection, after the 1,000 years {which represents the Millenial Kingdom coming}, is the dead who weren’t saved, for judgment.”

Ron: You had better pray that you are wrong. Jesus’ reign began 2,000 years ago. What… do you think he’s been hibernating all this time? Men certainly have “current-day” tunnel-vision!

The Commentator: “The FIRST resurrection is that one at the last trumpet…”

Ron: Where does it say that the first resurrection is at the last trumpet? Please supply the verse…

The Commentator: “…when the dead in Jesus rise first to meet Him in the clouds and the ones still living follow them up.”

Ron: That happened 2,000 years ago. Then, the rest of the dead were risen; that was a thousand years ago until present. We are the last – not the first.

The Commentator: “That incident in Israel immediately following the resurrection was a temporary thing. Those folks died again…”

Ron: Where does the Bible tell us that they died again? Verse please…

The Commentator: “…they weren’t taken up to heaven…”

Ron: Where does the Bible say this? Verse please…

The Commentator: “…they were walking around in Jerusalem.”

Ron: Agreed… the New Jerusalem, our free mother above.

The Commentator: “The Jews weren’t mistaken about what it’d look like; they just didn’t get the fact that there’d be 2 comings; they expected the Jesus of the 2nd coming the first time around, which was largely why they rejected Him.”

Ron: Much like those today who believe that Jesus will arrive and be our earthly king for a thousand years… Like the Jews of 2,000 years ago, few know who and what Jesus’ return looks like. You’re getting a glimpse of it here.

The Commentator: “Did you miss the part about Him stepping back to Earth on Mt Olivet from whence He actually departed when He went up to Heaven…”

Ron: Did you miss the part that the earth is his footstool? Where does one place their feet when a footstool is available?

The Commentator: “…and the mountain splitting in 2 when He does?”

Ron: In Daniel 2:45, Jesus is described as a Rock cut out of the Mountain of God. He has been here and has shown us that the Father and the Son, two separate entities, are ONE.

The Commentator: “That’s not a heavenly kingdom; that’s right here on Earth.”

Ron: “The earth shook and the rocks split…” – upon his crucifixion, when the 7,000 were raised.

The Commentator: “And its enemies here on Earth He’s coming to destroy as well.”

Ron: Yes, by His Word, this earth is destroyed – by fire. This is hell waiting to be set ablaze.

The Commentator: “Then to establish His kingdom here, but a new Heaven and Earth; after the old {current} ones are destroyed by fire, as prophesied after the flood.”

Ron:

Jesus said, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But NOW my kingdom is from a different place” – John 18:36
Jesus reigns in the free Jerusalem above, our mother.

The Commentator: “Gog and Magog haven’t come yet; Hitler isn’t part of that.”

Ron: I need not repeat the history. Better yet, you tell me which part of what I have previouisly given you was mistaken and how…

The Commentator: “But that just isn’t supported in any way by scripture; I KNOW that history and I don’t find it in the Bible certainly not in Ezekiel’s prophecies. What is your source for such ideas? It’s not any version of the Bible I’ve ever read! The burning of the bodies WILL happen hasn’t yet come in that context.”

Ron: REALLY??? – You are a Holocaust denier? You profess that the Jews were not burned in Hitler’s ovens? Even pope Benedict described the smell eminating from the furnaces. Are you certain that this is your stance?

The Commentator: “I suggest you don’t use the Quran for a reference because it’s author is a liar.”

Ron: Would you call on God this day and ask him to remove HIS reference to the Qur’an in Revelation 10:2 and 13:14-15?

The Commentator: “Virtually none of what they profess is even remotely accurate…”

Ron: The only thing “accurate” about the Qur’an is that it was warned of by God and the Bible.

The Commentator: “…and the only reason I believe the 12th Imam is likely to be the same person as the anti-Christ is that the person the BIBLE describes fits what they claim for that person; not because they say so.”

Ron: You are taking the Islamic word for what their mythical Mahdi is. Meaning; you are accepting that they, the Muslims, are prophetic. You will notice that the myth of the Mahdi was created right around the time that Satan was released from his chains… about a thousand years ago; three hundred years after Muhammad’s death.

Again, we have addressed every single one of these points and have done so by history and Biblical prophecy. There will be no earthly kingdom. This generation of man is nearly at its end. You now know the false prophet and his Antichrist god. Together they are Lucifer.

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